For the fifth meeting in a row, protesters attended Monday night’s City Council meeting demanding action in the fatal Decatur police shooting of Steve Perkins, this time also criticizing a councilman’s interaction with a protester following last week’s meeting.

Perkins was shot and killed by Decatur police on Sept. 29 at Perkins’ Ryan Drive residence in Southwest Decatur.

Councilman Billy Jackson said he didn’t hear a lot of new information at Monday’s work session but he does “see the level of frustration increasing because people don’t feel they’re getting answers and this thing is dragging on to two months now.”

Jackson said people are afraid that the problems with the city and the Police Department won’t be limited to the Perkins case if something doesn’t change.

“With that, the city has to take a stance of doing something so we start the healing process,” Jackson said.

The tensions and frustrations are increasing “the longer we go with what seems to be no progress in the investigations,” Council President Jacob Ladner said.

Ladner said the city has a process it has to follow, and appears to be making progress. Police Chief Todd Pinion last week said an internal investigation into whether officers violated police policy had been completed and he expected to hold a hearing on whether any discipline was appropriate this week.

“I am optimistic that in the near future there will some progress that the public and, I guess all of us, can see,” Ladner said.

Not clear is when the Alabama Law Enforcement Agency, which is conducting a criminal investigation into the shooting, will release its conclusions.

Protester Craig Johnson told the council he had offered solutions to the city but felt none were heard.

“We’ve sat for far too long for offering solutions which were pretty much laughed at,” Johnson said. “If I can’t make you leave, I’m going to make you quit.”

At Monday’s City Council work session, protester Walter Orr accused Councilman Hunter Pepper of assault for bumping him at least twice after the Nov. 6 meeting.

Orr posted a video of the incident on his Tik Tok account. He told the crowd in the work session that he plans to file charges against the councilman with Decatur Police Department.

“As the video will show, I had my back turned to tell (police Chief Todd) Pinion to come and talk and, before I could even turn around, Pepper’s belly was in my back,” Orr told The Daily. “(Pepper) was all up on me. When I turned around with the phone, I kept the phone on my chest so they could see how close he was to me.

“That was very unprofessional. He bumped me twice. That’s an unwanted touch … . That’s a simple assault. A councilman shouldn’t bump anybody unwarranted. He had no reason come off that podium behind me.”

Orr said he would have let Pepper pass if he had known the councilman was approaching.

“He was in my personal space before I could even turn around … . He was already on me,” Orr said.

At Monday’s council meeting, protester Chiriga Vinson addressed Pepper, saying the video shows that Pepper “rudely commanded (Orr) to get out of your way and kind of bogarted your way past him.

“I think that was very inappropriate, and I want to know what makes you think that was OK to treat him like that,” Vinson said.

Pepper refused to respond to her statement.

Pepper tried to respond to criticisms near the end of the meeting but, after getting interrupted several times by people in the crowd, he ended his statement and told Ladner to move on with the meeting.

Pepper said during the meeting he was trying go talk to the family of Jaiden DeJarnett, a 16-year-old who died in a wreck during a Decatur police chase on Sept. 4, and whose death has also triggered protests.

After the meeting, Pepper told The Daily that Orr’s description of the encounter was false.

“Mr. Orr claims I assaulted him, but I have a video that he recorded himself that does not show I assaulted him,” Pepper said. “It actually shows me keeping my hands in the air the entire time.”

It is not clear from the video whether there was physical contact.

Pepper says he said, “Excuse me,” to Orr at first, “and he refused to move while just staring at me blankly. So, I said, ‘Move, move, move, we’re not doing this.’ After I ask him to move, I’m not going to stand there a million years.

“Mr. Orr claims I assaulted him but, if I assaulted him, obviously I would be in jail. Mr. Orr’s claims are inaccurate. He’s trying play the victim here and that’s OK.”

Police spokeswoman Irene Cardenas-Martinez said no charges had been filed against Pepper as of late Tuesday afternoon.

This wasn’t the first conflict between Orr and Pepper. Orr said Pepper “tried to provoke me. He’s been taunting me and trying to pick a fight.”

Pepper said Orr “has been very derogatory” toward him and threatened him multiple times.

“He has threatened physical harm against myself and my family,” Pepper said. “But I’m going to let it go. I just think he’s trying to get his few minutes of fame.”

After receiving heavy criticism for missing the previous two meetings, Mayor Tab Bowling was in attendance at Monday’s work session.

Following Pinion’s announcement last week that he had completed his internal investigation into the shooting, Bowling read a prepared statement to lay out the next steps in the process.

Bowling said Pinion will hold a predetermination hearing, required by state law.

“If a Police Department policy was believed to be violated, it would then be presented to the office of the mayor for a determination hearing,” the mayor said.

If Bowling finds during the hearing that the officers should face a punishment or termination, he said they could appeal to the Personnel Board. This board would then hold a hearing, he added.

Bowling said he avoids commenting on the case because he might have to act as a judge in any disciplinary determination hearing.

Under questioning from a protester, Bowling said Pinion’s findings, the predetermination hearing and the determination hearing and his subsequent ruling would be behind closed doors. He said this is the process that’s available to every city employee.

City Attorney Herman Marks said the “exact ruling” would not become public unless there’s an appeal to the Personnel Board.

Councilmen Kyle Pike and Carlton McMasters and audience members were vocal in their displeasure that any finding by the mayor might not become public.

McMasters said he thinks the process should be behind closed doors because it’s a personnel matter, but he was surprised that the mayor’s findings and possible punishment won’t become public if it’s not appealed to the Personnel Board.

McMasters said the public deserves to know the fate of the officers. The protesters have consistently demanded the termination of the three officers present when Perkins was shot and of Pinion.

“If there’s discipline, how does the public know if there’s discipline when it’s not shared with the public?” McMasters said. “Surely to goodness, that information is shared if there’s no appeal.”

Jackson has joined the protesters in saying that Pinion should resign or be fired. He said Monday it’s frustrating to him that other councilmen haven’t taken the same stance.

“Regardless of whether he was at home in bed asleep or at home watching a football game, he’s accountable for every police officer’s actions,” Jackson said. “That’s a bold charge or responsibility but any police chief who accepts that role accepts it with the understanding they are accountable for their department.”

Despite demands that he quit, Pinion has attended every meeting since Perkins’ death and stayed around after the meetings answering questions from the protesters.

— [email protected] or 256-340-2432. Twitter @DD_BayneHughes.

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